
Rosemary McLeod — a lovely women, and probably the world’s worst copywriter when she dabbled briefly in advertising in the early 90s — gets stuck into me in today’s DomPost.
I’ve asked the editor for the right of reply. (I’m not holding my breath, given the Dom’s craven cowardice in banning ACT’s totally factual ad – while insisting that the party pay for the space in full.)
Assuming that the Dom will be consistent in their cowardice, I’d better reply to Rosemary’s points here:
There’s no need for satire in a country that does it naturally. We have the ACT party, and need little more. Let me explain.
In fits of gentility my mother used to make fancy desserts in tall parfait glasses, layers of custard, fruit and whipped cream, say, with a cherry on top.
OK, so we now know that gentility isn’t genetic — but so what? Come on, Rosemary, get to the point.
To eat these you needed special long-handled parfait spoons – a dainty crocheted place mat wouldn’t have gone amiss – and this reminds me of both a proverb and ACT’s leader.
Oh for God’s sake.
“He who sups with the devil will need a long spoon” – like my mother’s long-handled ones – when dealing with irrepressible types like John Ansell, author of a self-published book of verse – and CD – entitled I Think The Clouds are Cotton Wool.
And a very good book it is too. But what does my poetry have to do with the price of fish?
On the day his latest advertising campaign was launched, Ansell, ACT’s marketing director, who has effervesced recently on both Maori and women, was absent from the party conference.
That’s because I’d asked to be released from my contract three days earlier, Rosemary. And I was the creative director, not marketing director. Get your facts straight.
He later resigned from the party.
Earlier, Rosemary. I resigned earlier, and confirmed it later.
ACT’s leader, Don Brash, could not be seen to publicly condone Ansell’s comments, let alone his verse, yet such topics draw together the most delightful of pink-skinned blokes, the thinkers.
Let alone his verse? Huh?
And would you have talked about skin colour if the thinkers were brown-skinned, or is that just OK cos we’re ‘pink’?
Embodiments of all that is racially and culturally superior, they know they are endowed – probably by God – with special insights of a purely logical kind, as well as superior mating tackle, which helps with logic and stuff like that.
You’re dead right about God, Rosemary. There’s no doubt He was a Muslim-strength misogynist, considering the excruciating nature of childbirth, periods, women’s magazines, and your columns.
Women have been dealt with – logically – twice in the past couple of weeks by these better-endowed sorts, first by sacked Employers and Manufacturers’ Federation boss Alasdair Thompson, who pointed out that we menstruate, and therefore can’t be the equals of men in the workplace, and now by Ansell.
Yes, and it’s amazing how many honest, rational women have responded agreeing with both of us. (See the post below from Vivienne.)
Oh and — hate to interrupt your illogical rant with a fact, Rosemary – I don’t believe Alasdair ever said that because they menstruate, women ‘can’t be the equals of men in the workplace.’
I think you made that up.
I can’t speak for Alasdair. But I agree with my wife that women may well compensate for their comparative lack of attendance (again, a fact — which Alasdair was absolutely entitled to state) with superior performance when they do deign to turn up.
Women are famous for multi-tasking. They’re certainly more conscientious than men, and infinitely more obedient.
And as long as the work doesn’t involve building or fixing anything, in my experience they make first-rate employees. (And, indeed, employers.)
He explained that ACT’s advertising concepts – which he’d apparently been in eager charge of – should focus on men because women don’t want to “talk bluntly” and are “ruled by their emotions”.
Men ultimately defer to the brain for hard decisions, he added, while women look to their, you know, weepy bits.
Rosemary, are you seriously suggesting I was not telling a blindingly obvious truth?
Was that truth not made all the more obvious by women’s repeated re-election of Helen Clark?
If it was down to men, Rosemary, Clarxism would have been flushed away in 2005 and Brash would now be in his sixth year as PM.
Does anyone seriously doubt that New Zealand would today be a more prosperous nation under Brash than it was under Clark – or than it’s ever going to be under the decidedly more feminine Key?
Men, being on the whole more logical and economically literate, are more likely to opt for long-term economic gain at the price of a bit of short-term pain.
Women, being more concerned about preserving their day-to-day popularity, will plump for short-term gain, and guarantee long-term misery.
The only exception to that rule was in the Britain of Margaret Thatcher. Thatcher is one of the greatest conviction politicians of all time, and fully deserves to be elevated to the status of honorary man.
(Ayn Rand and Ruth Richardson are two other thoroughly logical women. Jenny Shipley was strong. And I have high hopes that Crusher Collins will soon become that rarest of birds: a National Prime Minister who is not a complete waste of space.)
British women ‘got’ Maggie because she related her economic management to their household budgeting.
And he was happy to be leaving ACT, he said, because they were collectively “white cowards” who were not standing up to the “Maorification” of the country.
An annoying, but typical, journalistic misquote.
I was referring to New Zealanders more broadly, not just ACT. ACT is by far the least cowardly party — but far too cowardly all the same.
The world hasn’t heard such rhetoric since Enoch Powell, and as luck would have it, he and Ansell appear to have knowledge of the classics in common.
The ancients believed women’s wombs and uteri could travel around their bodies causing all manner of hysterical carry-on – hence the very word hysteria, which proves once and for all that we’re loony-tunes.
If you say so, Rosemary. But I most certainly did not say so.
As regards Enoch Powell, his warnings about ‘rivers of blood’ if Britain threw open her doors to ill-fitting immigrants have been proven spectacularly correct with the infestation of moronic, home-grown, murderous, misogynistic Muslims now being incited to jihad by medieval mullahs in the mosques of Londonistan.
I thought an old feminist like you would support Powell’s position, Rosemary. He certainly supported yours.![]()
Ansell did not spare Maori, who he said had “gone from the Stone Age to the space age in 150 years, and haven’t said thanks”.
Well, they have. And they haven’t.
Has one Maori leader ever expressed gratitude for all the wonderful life-enhancing technological marvels that Western civilisation has bestowed upon his people?
(Marvels like the wheel. And writing. And shoes. Not to mention the computers on which so many of them have penned abusive, text-gangstarese threats to me in recent days.)
All we hear is a relentless wailing and moaning about how the rest of us are not giving them enough.
He is evidently a believer despite all the evidence – unemployment, drug and alcohol addiction, high rates of imprisonment, poor health, shorter life expectancy – that Maori are somehow ripping us all off.
Yes I am.
The choices made by too many Maori to wag school, not study, bludge benefits, invade homes, do drugs, eat junk, smash heads and kill their kids, are just that.
Choices, Rosemary, choices.
For too long, cunning Irish Steves pretending to be Maori Tipenes have been donning their whalebone carvings and pulling the wool over the eyes of weak whiteys.
For too long, these Steves and their lawyers (especially one called Chris) have tried to make it the fault of other New Zealanders that Maori are ‘disadvantaged’.
That the education system has ‘failed Maori’.
That the health system has ‘failed Maori’.
(Yet strangely not the welfare system.)
In fact, as any honest examiner of the facts can see, Maori have failed the education system. It is Maori who have chosen not to avail themselves of Western medicine, not the other way round.
That’s their free choice. They should not blame others if they’ve wasted these golden opportunities for advancement.
If you think I’m being harsh, Rosemary, look at what the Chinese — the “Yellow Peril” of this time last century – look at how they forgave, if not forgot, their racist oppressors.
Look at how they just got on and beat the whites at their own game.
That, I think, is the difference between Buddhism and Confucianism and socialism and tribalism. It’s the difference between looking forward with hope, resolve and optimism, and looking backwards with bitterness and one’s hand out.
Of course, we can’t blame these cunning iwi aristocrats for waging their long-running campaign of emotional blackmail. After all, Treaty grief has worked a treat so far.
Given half a chance to extort billions of dollars from a government weak enough to fall for their tricks, you and I might well do the same.
But the game’s up.
The Maoristocracy should not expect the rest of us to renegotiate Treaty settlements that they were happy to accept as fully and finally settled in the 1940s. (I’ll be blogging the evidence for that soon.)
I rather think Ansell has himself demonstrated how it’s possible to leap from the space age to the Stone Age in a single bound, back to when involuntary grunts passed for dialectic.
I’d rather make involuntary grunts than involuntary grants.
Those were the days, when Maori would have been taught to be thankful for chicken pox, measles, influenza,and the host of other diseases from the northern hemisphere that nearly wiped them out, and grateful that they lost their ancestral lands thanks to the workings of a legal system they had no part in creating, and whose machinations were foreign to them.
That’s nonsense, Rosemary. Precisely the kind of absurd emotional female non-logic that I was talking about.
Here’s the boring old fact: What nearly wiped Maori out was each other. Heard of the Musket Wars?
Bloodthirsty, armed Nga Puhi warriors rampaged through the land slaughtering half of their fellow (unarmed) countrymen.
This was in the 1820s and 30s, before your disease-infested Brits even got going.
If the Brits had waited another ten years, they would have walked into a land where all that was left of the natives were bullet-shattered bones.
(Trouble is, it would also have been full of insufferable Frenchmen, hence why they couldn’t wait.)
There is a Disney version of the settlement of this country by Europeans which all of us learned from the back of cereal packets.
Yes, but even that Disney version is not as fantastic as the make-believe Maori-Marxist version that today’s kids get brownwashed with, year after year after mind-numbing year, in social studies.
(Which should really be called socialist studies. For about eight years straight, whenever I asked my kids what they were studying in social studies, the only answer I ever got in that whole time was “The Treaty”.)
In the make-believe Maori-Marxist version, there is, I am confident, no mention of how the Maori wiped out vastly more of their own people deliberately with muskets than the British did accidentally with diseases.
Nor of how an activist judge called Robin Cooke dreamed up the first of two Landmark Lies: that the Treaty was a partnership between a bunch of stone age tribesmen and the greatest civilisation on earth.
(As opposed to an agreement to run the country and protect Nga Puhi from southern tribesmen hell-bent on revenge for Nga Puhi’s ethnic cleansing of their relatives — and from the fearful French and a gathering swarm of escaped Australian convicts.)
In the Maori-Marxist version, there is, I’m supremely confident, no mention of how Geoffrey Palmer, that legal genius who gave us the Red Tape Multiplication Act — I mean Resource Management Act – conjured up out of thin air the second of the Landmark Lies: that the Treaty contained a set of Principles.
(Presumably written in invisible ink.)
Nor of how the government has been covering up the true English version of the Treaty, the Littlewood Treaty, ever since it was discovered in the late 1980s.
Nor of how the same government slapped a 75 year suppression order on the carbon dating results of hundreds of Celtic stone dwellings in the Waipoua Forest that are likely to prove that Maori, as well as being not indigenous (they invaded by sea only a few hundred years before Tasman, after all), were also far from the first people to settle these islands.
But there is another reality in the consequences for Maori, just as there has been for native people wherever Europeans have moved in and taken over.
And that is that their life expectancy and living standards improve out of sight from what they were under their own management.
ACT’s latest advertising slogan, “Fed Up With Pandering to Maori Radicals?” panders to people who insist that the shared history and common plight of Maori, native Australians, and native Americans is their own fault.
Such a belief, whatever Ansell says, is infinitely less about logic than emotion.
Rosemary: in the old Maori world, the rule of conquest was, ”We won, you lost, eat you.”
When a Maori tribe defeated another tribe in battle, the losers were slaughtered or enslaved.
The victorious chief then celebrated by ingesting a delicacy that may have been the original inspiration for the Hokitika Wild Food Festival – the enemy chief’s eyes.
(Te Rauparaha, Te Kooti, Hone Heke, etc. had cause to be grateful that the British Army commanders preferred meat and two veg.)
In America and Australia, the white colonisers were similarly ruthless. The Spanish in Latin America were even worse.
But the British in New Zealand were astonishingly civilised by the standards of the day.
Thus there are hundreds of thousands of Maori alive today who would not be, had the usual 1840 Maori and Pakeha rules of engagement applied.
I’m not saying, Rosemary, that that excuses legitimate breaches of the Treaty. It doesn’t. There should be redress for those breaches which can be proven.
But it does put in perspective how lucky the descendants of those Maori people are to have a Treaty to wail and moan about, and a tribe with which to share the spoils.
The same cannot be said for the tribes that their tribes massacred, like those in Taranaki, who were massacred by the Waikato, and the Chatham Islands Moriori and Wellington Maori, who were massacred by the remnants of the Taranaki.
The guilt trip isn’t all one-way, Rosemary.
It’s time for the Treaty gravy train to chug back to the station, and for you to stop letting its passengers do your thinking for you.
Here endeth the logic.
John, Rosemary does not bring anything to the debate at all she offers no valid facts or figures or logic and then accuses others of emotion
“Maori would have been taught to be thankful for measles and smallpox” What drivel is this? When did this happen?
Unemployment, drug abuse, alcoholism, Who is responsible for that?
If Maori do not want to help themselves in spite of all the affirmative action policies how is it anyone elses fault ? I have seen quite a few Maori in Australia who are doing quite nicely thank you very much now I wonder why that would be ? Could it be that they are treated the same as everyone else there?
John, are you aware that you’re rehashing Martin Doutre’s nutty conspiracy theories when you talk about suppressed evidence of an ancient Celtic city in Waipoua forest? Doutre is a 9/11 Troofer and a Holocaust denier as well as a complete amateur when it comes to NZ history.
http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-to-nazi-pseudo-history-an-open-letter/
The claim that the Moriori were completely wiped out is a bit off the mark, too – they’ve just opened a new marae…
I’m aware that Martin Doutre isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, puzzled observer. I don’t know him. I know there are legitimate questions to be asked about 9/11, but I’d be very surprised if an historian, as he claims to be, was able to credibly deny the Holocaust.
Anyway, having suffered similar attempts to discredit me, I thought I’d consider his work on its merits and see how the evidence falls.
I’ve read a very good book by him on the Littlewood Treaty, and the report I’ll soon be blogging about the Celtic stones looks reasonable to me.
But I’ll be happy to let other informed readers inform me.
***Look at how they just got on and beat the whites at their own game. ***
There is an interesting socio-biological theory discussed here in this old paper by theoretical physicist & software businessman Ron Unz (written while he was studying under ‘sociobiology’ author EO Wilson at Harvard).
http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/02/sociobiological-implications-of.html
Also, great response to McLeod. I skipped her column as I suspected it would be rubbish. I hope the DomPost allow you the right of reply as requested.
First class rebuttal, keep up the firepower.
John, why did you delete the information I posted about Doutre’s Holocaust denial and other pseudo-scholarship? I thought you were for free speech?
And I thought you were an observer. Look up a few comments and you’ll see it’s still there. At least it is on my screen.
I’ve asked someone I know who knows Doutre to invite his response. I know what it’s like to be accused of being something you’re not, so let’s give him a chance to respond.
MY MISTAKE. I NOW KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN — ANOTHER COMMENT. NOW RECTIFIED.
A longer comment offering links to debunkings of Doutre seems to have disappeared. Here it is again:
Sorry, it was in a moderation holding pen, which I didn’t know existed.
John, Doutre’s work has been debunked on numerous occasions by trained scholars, and his 9/11 denialism and Holocaust denial is a matter of public record. Check out the footnotes at the bottom of the article I linked to, or look at Doutre’s own words in the debate that follows the article. You’ll see Doutre acknowledging his admiration for David Irving’s work, denying the Holocaust, claiming that 9/11 was an ‘inside job’, claiming that the ancient white inhabitants of this country were divided into a race of dwarfs and a race of 7-12 foot giants, denying that Polynesians had the intelligence to sail from one island to another, arguing that the ancient Egyptians were Celts who relocated to England and built Stonehenge, and perpetuating all sorts of other nonsense.
The notion that ancient Celts built an advanced civilisation in New Zealand and were then conquered by Polynesians who stole all their tiki and waka and women is puerile, and can only be defended with the aid of conspiracy theory. Celtic aquatechnology was far too primitive to enable them to sail to the other side of the world – Doutre tries to ‘explain’ this by saying that the Romans distorted the historical record by covering up the Celts’ supposedly advanced marine technology. And Doutre can only explain the many studies of Maori DNA that have been done wholly or partially outside this country and failed to locate a genetic link to Celts by claiming that the Jewish-controlled UN is in on the conspiracy to deny the indigenity of Kiwi whites.
Doutre also has a record of falsely claiming the support of serious scholars for his work – Paul Moon is one scholar who has been forced to publically disassociate himself from the man:
http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2009/05/paul-moon-condemns-celtic-new-zealand.html
I think it’d be worth your while to read the critiques of Doutre done by experts, and also to look at the actual report on the Waipoua forest (the notion that it’s been locked in a vault is a myth – it’s available at any university library) before endorsing Doutre’s views.
Here’s a good critique of Doutre’s research, and his use of gobbledygook pseudo-surveying and pseudo-matchematical formulas, by John Riddell:
http://www.skeptics.org.nz/SK:VIEWARTICLE::waDeptTOC.1,A1372
And here’s biologist David Winter’s patient explanation of why Doutre’s claims that modern Maori are the descendants of ancient Celts are not supported by DNA:
http://sciblogs.co.nz/the-atavism/2010/07/29/the-first-new-zealanders-and-their-rats/
The ‘Littlewood Treaty’ can’t be a treaty, as it wasn’t signed by anybody. Its references to ‘New Zealanders’ are references to Maori – in those days the terms were synonymous.
Paul Moon, who is hardly a left-wing historian – he’s actually a conservative Christian with neo-liberal views on economics – discussed the document at great length with Doutre’s friends at the One New Zealand Foundation, in an effort to explain that it wasn’t some repressed secret version of the TOW – he ended up being accused of being in on the great conspiracy against white folk that Doutre and co are always on about!
Puzzled observer: having witnessed the self-interested attacks of climate science supposed experts against equally well-qualified sceptics (emotively branded ‘denialists’) I no longer take any ‘expert’s word at face value.
I’ll just put up the info and see where the evidence points. With words like ‘puerile’ you remind me of one of those climate alarmists.
If Martin Doutre turns up, he’ll get his chance to rebut your claims. If he can’t, then game, set and match to you.
Since it’s certainly true that people should not be accused of what they are not, let’s look at some of Doutre’s own words, taken from the Scoop Review of Books debate linked to in my first comment on this thread:
On the Holocaust:
‘You mention Holocaust denial. Since the end of WWII countless scholars have been stifled and vilified in their attempts to cut through the propaganda and get a real insight into what truly happened. One of the best, balanced appraisals on the subject that I’ve ever read was the Master’s thesis by Jewish Historian, Dr. Joel Hayward of Canterbury &, later, Massey University. Like so many others he got crucified by extremist elements, was witch-hunted and harassed into a nervous breakdown and subsequently lost his career for a few years.’
Actually Hayward wrote a Masters thesis that argued nobody died in Auschwitz and other death camps and was rightly condemned for putting forward this argument.
On his attitude to David Irving, the most notorious of contemporary Holocaust deniers:
‘As for David Irving, it was generally accepted worldwide that he was the most astute, prolific, all-round scholar and historian on the subject of WWII, at least up until May, 1988, when he made a very bad career choice. At that time he was called upon to give expert testimony, under oath, in a court case and stated that he could find no documented evidence of “Hitler’s Final Solution”. For this unforgivable admission, he fell foul of the Zionists who, thereafter, focused their hatred on him and have been unrelenting in trying to destroy his credibility ever since. To me, David Irving is simply the leading expert in his field, who has been very unfairly maligned.’
On his relationship with Kerry Bolton, who is one of NZ’s best-known neo-Nazis:
‘Kerry Bolton has never been a Nazi in his life, let alone, as you erroneously put it, New Zealand’s leading Neo Nazi…Kerry is just a nice, quiet, articulate and down to earth bloke who is very friendly and approachable.’
As you say, John, nobody who can deny the Holocaust deserves to be treated seriously as an historian. Doutre is by his own admission a Holocaust denier.
http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-to-nazi-pseudo-history-an-open-letter/
I did not say those words, puzzled observer, so you too are capable of distortion. The best way to sort this out is to get you and Doutre arguing point for point. That’s also the only realistic way to sort out the global warming debate.
What you said is ‘I’d be very surprised if an historian, as he claims to be, was able to credibly deny the Holocaust’. In other words, no one who denies the Holocaust should be taken seriously as a scholar.
The two sentences do not mean the same thing. I said I’d be surprised, and I would be.
But I won’t say something’s untrue, or that someone shouldn’t be taken seriously, just because something they’ve said surprises me. I’ve heard too much of that kind of emotive spin from climate so-called scientists.
Nowadays, all experts have to work harder to earn my trust.
Naturally I have great doubts about Doutre, but I’ll make up my mind by weighing both sets of evidence, not listening to hearsay. I believe our legal system employs the same technique.
Doutre’s Holocaust denial is unambiguous – I’ve quoted his own words at length. It’s strange that you want to give space to a guy who has Doutre’s track record of abominable anti-semitism, not to mention 9/11 denialism and various other idiocies.
I’m happy to give space to anyone, so we can have the debate. As soon as I can see someone is lying to me, believe me I’ll say so.
I’m wary of terms like denialism and idiocies — they remind me of lefties who use emotion to close down debates. They diminish your credibility.
Why don’t you read the official archaeological reports (there are two of them, both commissioned by DOC and the Forestry Service)on Waipoua and discuss them, rather than give time to an openly racist crackpot like Doutre?It’s fair enough not to take the words of experts at face value – but you don’t appear to have actually *read* the quite extensive reports produced by experts on Waipoua. Instead you go straight to an anit-semitic nutter. Seems a bit odd…
No I haven’t read those. I didn’t know about them. I’m new at this, and am just responding to what I’ve been sent.
If you want to send me the DOC report, I’ll happily respond to it.
You’ll notice I haven’t actually published the piece yet — that’s because of your warning. I’m checking him out.
So don’t worry: so far you’re winning
could the stone-masonry be Chinese in origin? Could Doutre be mistaking the superior Navigational skills of the Chinese for Celtic? The DNA evidence has Mitochondrial DNA as being consistent with Taiwanese Mitochondrial DNA?
The ocean going vessels of the Chinese in the period archaeological evidence states NZ was settled were far superior to anything that the Europeans had. Trades routes to India, Indonesia and Arab nations were well established, has can be proven by artefacts persisting in both ends of the trade routes. If the Chinese could get to Indonesia, then why not Australia?
Pre-European Cartography of Chinese origin has been purported to be the impetus which drove the likes of Portugal and Venice to embark on the ambitious exploration of the C16.
Maori may well be the descendants of Chinese Mariners, who took Micronesian Slaves, but who later rebelled and killed their male over lords, but then interbred with the female concubines who journeyed on the vessels, which have been surmised to have as many as 500-1000 occupants aboard.
I’m aware of this theory too, Mort. I think it emanates from Gavin Menzies’ book 1492 about the global voyages of Zheng He and his huge ships. All very fascinating. I’m certainly not qualified to do anything other than acknowledge the differing views.